NOTES: on Lonestar to Deathstar conversion
Purpose of conversion is to get a better grip with more mass weight in the middle of the bow.I will also get rid of any fat possible and plan on dropping 6+lbs of bow weight doing so.Tips and outer limbs are quite large for a bow this weight and can stand some trimming.Should see an improvement in performance and will help the feel of the bow. Possible alterations include installing inserts for a quiver in the riser.
Mass weight on bow is 25.4 ounces before modifications
braced at 7 3/4"
54 at 28" on my scales and 70" AMO, string is 67" long at brace height and was
shot as the bow came and with string change, neither arrow is tuned and used for weight only.
First numbers from the crony at 28" (hard to get a full 28" draw because of grip size and shape)
16 strand string with padded loops 537gn arrow 166, 375gn arrow 186
12 strand string with 537gn arrow 171, 375gn arrow 192
NOTE; bigger string is quieter when shot without silencers but at a cost of 5fps, save it. If I pick up enough performance I might use it for hunting if I can't get things quiet enough.
String gives a 5fps increase
Observations:
First impressions on bow..Work in construction is shoddy for a custom and I would be dissapointed recieving it as new..A lot of tool marks and the string grooves leave a lot to be desired.I don't think they have ever been sanded since cut with a file.Clear glass shows several small spots that came from a less than perfect glue up.A few glue joints are thicker than they should be.Most seem to be on the edges of the limbs and will be removed during modifications.Performance while not terrible could stand to be better.A plus is the design seems to be able to handle light weight arrows without hurting my elbow.Good considering the grip or lack of on this bow.
Get started!
I ground off the belly overlays.I see one problem I will have.The belly has been rounded so much that to sand enough to clean up the glue lines when I put on the new overlays the grip is going to be way too small.Just not enough wood to work with since it is only about an inch wide anyway.Solution..I will carry on as planned and sand it down then build a palm swell out of epoxy like Rod did in his thread.I should be able to get a grip like I want and might put a thunb rest on as well.I can cover it all with a leather grip so no one will see the epoxy job.
The new overlays are on and rough shaped.I only had one small board to match the riser so put it together with scrap.I added 2 pieces of glass for a little extra strength since the riser is going to get pretty thin when I cut it past center and I don't want it to twist..
I have the first coat of epoxy putty on and think it is going to work fine.The shelf might need to have putty on it as well.A nice square bow blank would have been a lot easier.I will cut it where an Axis carbon will lay centershot on the shelf.This should allow me to use 500 spines even if I lose a lot of weight when I work on the limbs.It is looking pretty good so far.
Epoxy is dry and I will run the numbers again on the bow with the two test arrows.Shooting with the stock riser I could easily feel the flex in the riser while drawing.My idea is with the added larger overlays it would stiffen up the riser some and should add to performance some, but how much? Will it add draw weight to the bow as well???
Observations:
The riser did stiffen up some.The extra half inch of wood makes the bow feel better.I can not tell any weight gain on the scales when checking the bow again.I do see some improvement in performance however.Is it a result of the stiffer mid section of the bow or possibly because the bow is now more centershot??I am not sure, maybe a bit of both but I like it because the bow is on tract.The grip still needs work but feels much better.
375gn arrow 199fps (shot with new string)
537gn arrow 176
Average increase of 5fps for riser mods
NOTE
I am getting a bit excited at this point and think there is hope in this old bow.The 10fps gain at 10gns in performance puts the bow shooting pretty respectble numbers at this point.I should be able to drop weight a few lbs and still be close to stock performance.The bow is not very effecant however. At just under 7 grs I should be up over 200fps at this point but those heavy limbs show up on the light arrows more.I hope to fix that when I hit those outer limbs hard to trim fat.I guess the old longbows handles heavy arrows better thing is raiseing it's head.They do when they are overbuilt anyway! :)
Shot a lightspeed with 100gn point from it.330gns,6gns. 206. No fun at all,Would need glove on bow hand and pain killers to do this much! Bow had a really good twang to it as well.Speed should have been much higher at this arrow weight.
Mass weight on bow is now 30 onces.I sure wish I could get it up a little more.I have a 4 ounce DAS weight but no where big enough in the baby riser to hide it.This one will get limbsavers for sure.
I see that I am going to like shooting the bow much more with the new grip.It still has more vibration than I want with the light weight arrow.For some reason the bow seems a little noisier with the new riser.I bet it is because there is no leather on the shelf yet! DUH! The vibration is from the fat in the limbs.When I trim the fat off I think it will tame down a lot.Should get a few more numbers out of it too.Will work on the limbs and see what I am going to get from this thing today.
I am going to start by just narrowing the limbs 1/8" on each side the full length of the working limb.I think I will leave the none working limb wide as it is.I kind of like the flat bow look and if I decide to dress it up later snake skins look better on a wide limb.Once the limb looks like I want and gets weighed and shot again I will trap the back of the limb some and adjust any tiller changes as I go. REMEMBER GO SLOW!! THIS IS THE MAKE IT OR BREAK IT PART SO NO HURRYS
STOP!! TAKE PICTURES
I got to remember to take pictures of the process for Wally and if I post a thread on it! Slow down dumbass. : )
ok, got pictures. carry on
Got the limbs narrowed down and reworked the tips.The scale shows I took off 1.2 onces off the limbs.The tiller is off just a little now but I have plenty of limb to work with and need to lose more weight.The bow is much more pleasant to shoot now and is quieter as well.I am starting to get happy and seeing some light on this thing.The bow now pulls 50lbs on my scales.I lost 4lbs of bow weight.I hope to get it down at least 2 more lbs.The bow has thicker glass on the back than on the belly so I will sand and trap the back to get there.I will be happy if I can lose a couple of more lbs and keep the numbers the same.It will make a good bow then.No Goblin yet but is headed in the right direction.
New numbers
375grn arrow 200fps
537gn arrow 175fps
I can now shoot the 330gn arrow and the bow behaves much better.Losing the fat on the tips helped a lot as I thought it should.It now shoots 210fps and would be able to handle an arrow that light ok.
I sanded my butt off but decided to not trap the limbs.I like the way they look now and I can handle the weight fine.I lost 3 more lbs and am at 47lbs now which was target weight.I could sand the belly and get more but am going to leave the 21st Century label on the bow and that would mess it up.The bow feels lighter because it is long and so smooth at the end of the draw.I keep weighing it but it is 47lbs every time.By building out the riser I moved the grip back a little over 1/2" to gain powerstroke making the 7 3/4 original brace height now 71/4.With the reduction in the limbs and change in tiller it shoots well at 7"and shows less reflex when strung but the sweet spot seems to be right around 7 3/8 to 7 1/2 and this is where I will shoot it now.
New numbers
375gn arrow 195
537gn arrow 173
330 gn arrow 202 braced at 7 3/8", bare string
Observations
The bow feels good and is a weight that I normally shoot.The grip fits like a glove and I think I will be able to shoot it well.The thumb rest positions my hand well but I notice it when carring the bow hanging from my side.This might get bothersome during a day chasing hogs.I will reduce it in size and see if that helps.The riser looks good on the bow and someone probably will never know it has been reworked once the epoxy grip gets covered.I tried to make it look like the picture of the Nova riser Pete posted.I guess that is a riser offered my 21st Century.Hope that grip works out ok since my leather work sucks.I am really happy with the way it is turning out.This is not going to be one of those projects that gets thrown in the corner but will be a good bow instead.That is always good.
Conclusion
Got the bow sealed.Won't put the finish on untill spring when it warms up.Bow now weighs 26.9 ounces and is pretty much done untill it get's a finish and the leather on the grip.I ended up taking a bit over 3 ounces off the limbs and loseing 7lbs of bow weight in the process.I am hoping to get it tuned so I can shoot it tommorrow at the club meeting.Not going to be a looker with the epoxy showing and sanded limbs but as long as it shoots.This worked out a bit better than I expected from the begining.I was hoping to lose the weight and keep all the performance I could from the original numbers.In the end I am now shooting 47lbs instead of 54lbs and it gained a little over the original performance with the same arrows.That is 7 pounds of fat to me that I don't have to carry around and be drawing.The bow while looked good with the slinky little riser was not something I would ever be able to shoot well.It was about impossible to keep hand placement consistant.The new riser and grip fixed that well and I like the looks.All is left now is to put silencers on the string and stick something on the shelf for the meeting.I will then check performance with a 10gn lb arrow set up hunting quiet and call this one closed.
After putting on wool silencers and sticking velcro on the shelf and side plate.I found the bow is quietest braced at 7" instead of higher.??
330gn arrow 200
375gn arrow 192
537gn 170
470GN ARROW 180FPS AND BOW IS PRETTY QUIET
This is all finished up and shooting my new Fat Hippo shafts. It looks like it came with the new riser. :) I wound up taking one more lb off the bow to get the tiller a bit better now it is just right for me..It is 46lbs now and is shooting with two sets of wool puffs and braced at 7 3/4".It shoots 186 with 9gns for the 3ds and will shoot my 500gn hunting arrow.170fps.Smooth, quiet and fast enough for what I need.The grip fits well and this one will hunt this year.
